作者：Ron Paul
A partially-declassified DIA report brings disturbing details about US support for jihadists in Syria. What kind of game is the US government playing in the Middle East?
一份部分解密的美国国防情报局的报告揭示了一些美国在叙利亚扶持伊斯兰圣战主义者的细节。这令我们很不安，因为我们不知道美国政府在中东究竟玩的是哪一手？
Ron Paul: Hello everybody and thank you for tuning in to the Liberty Report. With me today is Daniel McAdams. It’s good to see you Daniel.
荣·保罗：各位好！谢谢你们观看《自由报告》。今天和我在一起的是丹尼尔·麦克亚当斯。丹尼尔，很高兴见到你。
Daniel McAdams: Good to see you Dr. Paul.
丹尼尔·麦克亚当斯：你好，保罗博士。
Ron Paul: I want to talk a little bit today about a declassification of a report, a DIA report, Defense Intelligence Agency report that was written in 2012 and has to do with what was going on as the war was expanding in Syria and try to clarify what our policies actually were regarding this area. It turns out, it’s really pretty sad, it turns out that the evidence is here; although the suspicions had been there that our government was following a policy that seemed to be deliberately helping ISIS. Of course, the other day we recognized that the bombing that we’ve agreed to recently is to bomb the Kurds, but not ISIS.
荣·保罗：今天我想略微谈谈一份美国国防情报局部分解密的报告。这份报告写于2012年，与当时正在叙利亚境内逐渐扩大的战事究竟是为了什么休戚相关。该报告试图说明我们在该地区实际执行的是何种政策。虽然对我们的政府的政策是不是在故意帮助ISIS还有怀疑，但是看过这份报告之后真的令人相当难过，因为所需要的证据都在这儿。前几天我们刚刚承认我们同意丢的炸弹炸的其实不是ISIS而是库尔德人。
Here back then we were picking sides and this report tells us a little bit about it and the interview was on Al Jazeera and the former director Michael Flynn. He was being interviewed and he was revealing this information. Actually, the interviewer thought this can’t be true and he wanted to give Flynn a chance to soften it, it can’t be this bad for America to be in this position. Then, when they looked at this and found out that indeed there is a lot of information, but I imagine Flynn has a lot of information and knowledge being the director of the Intelligence Agency.
回到主题。这份报告告诉了我们一点点有关我们正在选边站的信息。当时那次采访是在半岛电视台进行的，采访对象是前负责人麦克·富莱茵。麦克·富莱茵揭露了这些信息。不过采访的记者确实认为这些信息不可能是真的，并且还想给富莱茵一次机会去缓和一下：对美国这样一个国家来说它不能做坏到这个份上的坏事。然而，当他们看着这个，并发现确实存在大量信息，不过我猜想富莱茵作为这个情报机构的负责人是掌握着大量信息和见闻的。
Daniel McAdams: The Defense Intelligence Agency sort of serves the same purpose that the CIA does for the President. They serve that purpose for the military, for the four branches of the military. They provide both analysis and even operational forces. They are, sort of, a shadow CIA, whereas it might sound wasteful, in fact with intelligence sometimes having duplication is better because you get different perspectives. If you remember the 2007 CIA or the Intelligence Assessment of Iran was really important.
丹尼尔·麦克亚当斯：可以说美国国防情报局和中央情报局一样都是为这个总统服务的。他们为军方服务，为军方的四个分支机构服务。他们提供分析甚至提供军事力量。他们有点像中央情报局的影子。这个话听上去很浪费，但是实际上情报机构有时最好需要双份，因为你可以得到不同的观点。如果你记得2007年的中央情报局，或者针对伊朗的情报评估，就会知道这样做的重要性了。
Ron Paul: Right.
荣·保罗：很对。
Daniel McAdams: And the State Department Intelligence took out a footnote which is that they disagree, so duplication is important, but Flynn was not only the head of the DIA, he was also the head of the Joint Special Operations Command, which is an increasingly important and well used part of the military under Obama. I think in these two capacities he certainly was in a position to know and the question is why would he come forth at this time. We don’t know exactly, but we do know that there are some people from within government, we talked about people like Manning and we talked about so many others who tell us inconvenient truths and I think Mike Scheuer falls in this category, he followed Osama bin Laden for so long and he finally came out and told us why everything they were doing was wrong. Maybe this has something to do with it.
丹尼尔·马克亚当斯：美国国务院的情报部门除掉了其中一个他们不同意的脚注，所以说留个备份很重要，但是富莱茵不仅仅是美国国防情报局的头头，他同时还是“联合特种作战司令部”的头头。这个司令部在奥巴马的手下正在变得越来越重要，并被作为军方的一部分而频频使用。我认为有着这样两份才能的他一定处在一个知道一切的位置上。现在的问题是为什么他在这个时刻现身。准确地讲我们不知道为什么，但是我们确实知道存在一些从政府内部来的人。我们谈论的人，比如曼宁。还有许多我们谈论过的其他人告诉了我们一些不方便透露的真相。我认为麦克·舒尔就属于这类人。麦克·舒尔追踪本拉登很久了，最后他跳出来告诉我们为什么他们做的每一件事都是错误的。也许这次也有关。
Ron Paul: This reminds me of the confusion in ’07 I guess or we are leading up to the Iraq war and the trouble that Colin Powell got into. Does he get convinced, does it get confusing and all this, but literally it’s the lying that counts and so many times we lied into wars and this looks like we are working on this. The immediate response to this by the establishment insiders who are the experts and the CIA and their credentials are questionable compared to Michael Flynn’s. They go to them and they say this is all bunch of fluff, these are conspiracy people and they are working on something. Also, a website which is pretty prevalent now, that’s The Daily Beast and they have Jacob Siegel there that writes on this and he comes down very hard on anybody releasing and talking about this information it doesn’t mean anything. I think it’s up to us to help people sort this out and find out what is true and what is not.
荣·保罗：这让我想起2007年的一些让人困惑的东西，当时我想我们正要打伊拉克，而那是一个鲍威尔陷进去的麻烦。他被说服了吗？还是对所有这些感到迷惑？不过那确实是让我们打仗的谎言。许多次我们说着谎话去打仗，还看上去仿佛我们很喜欢打仗一样。业内人士——就是那些专家和中央情报局——立刻对麦克·富莱茵的言论作出了回应，不过他们的资格与麦克·富莱茵一比就很可疑了。他们走过去说这全部都是台词失误，这些都是事先预谋好的，这些人就是为此工作的。还有一个现在很流行的网站——就是《每日野兽》。雅各布·西格尔为该网写作。他严厉批评那些公布并谈论这些信息的人，他认为这些信息一钱不值。我认为帮助人们辨认并找出什么是真的什么是假的完全取决于我们。
Daniel McAdams: I think when you have people within government who believe that the world is their chessboard and they can move the pieces around at will, so they will support ISIS here, because they think they will get this job done, just like they support the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and when things backfire, then there is no trail to lead to them. What gets me about this is that the U.S. government knew. Flynn said ‘My analysis was pushed down the pipe and nobody paid attention.’ They’ve had to have seen it, this is an important guy.
丹尼尔·麦克亚当斯：我认为政府中有些人相信这个世界不过是他们的棋盘，他们能随心所欲的到处移动棋子。因为在他们看来在这里支持ISIS会让他们的工作功德圆满，就像他们在阿富汗支持穆斯林圣战游击队一样，所以他们就会在在这里支持ISIS。当事情没有按照他们的设想发展时，也不会有任何痕迹将罪名指向他们。这些事实让我清楚美国政府知道一切。富莱茵说：‘我的分析被甩进了下水道。没有人注意它。’他们要是看出这是个重要的家伙就好了。
They knew what’s going on, they knew that the U.S. had been supporting ISIS, supporting the rise of ISIS for tactical reasons, obviously not for ideological reasons, but we have a situation, we have talked about this earlier, yesterday the State Department briefing, the U.S. pushes ISIS in Syria, ISIS destabilizes Syria, because the U.S. wants Assad to go, they turn the place into a disaster, but even now the State Department is boldface lying about what happened. Toner, who is a Spokesman for the State Department said yesterday that it’s all Assad’s fault he is ‘the root of all evil, because he created the conditions that the Syrian people find themselves in today.’ He said ‘The Assad regime has been,’ this is important ‘has been instrumental in creating the kind of lawless area where ISIS has been able to extend its roots.’
他们知道发生了什么，他们知道美国一直在支持ISIS，他们为了战术策略方面的原因而明显不是意识形态方面的原因支持ISIS崛起。我们之前谈论过这个形式。昨天国务院简单介绍了美国在叙利亚推动了ISIS，而ISIS则在暗中颠覆叙利亚。这一切的原因不过是美国想让阿萨德滚蛋，所以他们将那一地区变为一场灾难。不过即使是此刻国务院对该地区发生的事情还在大言不惭地撒谎。国务院发言人特纳昨天还在说：‘因为阿萨德制造了叙利亚人民今天不得不面对的一切，所以全都是阿萨德的错，阿萨德就是所有恶魔的根源。’他还说：‘阿萨德政权帮助制造了这个无法无天的地区，才让ISIS有可能在那里生根。’我认为后一句话是他的重点。
Ron Paul: It’s so blatant, so blatant and so hard to get people to understand this and react to it and reign in in our government. Telling the truth is difficult, the bigger the government and the bigger the Empire, the more they tell lies and truth is treason in the Empire of lies. Also, remember the statements during the Soviet Era, that they always tell the truth, because the party establishes the truth. Truth is relative and in a way this is the case. Presidents are the noble lie and a lot of them tell lies, because it’s in the interest of the people and that’s a different story and the neocons accept that principle.
荣·保罗：我们的政府为了权力，为了让人民理解这个、并对此作出反应，真是太露骨了、太露骨了、太狠了。讲出真相是困难的。（好吧，以下为Paul的政治立场）美国政府越大、这个帝国越大，他们就越是撒谎。在这个谎言的帝国中真相就是罕见的珍宝。还记得苏联时代的那些声明吧，那个时候他们总是讲真话的，因为党就是讲真话的（好吧，人老了）。现在真相是相对的，而且从某种程度来讲这就是实情。总统们讲的是外表高尚的谎言，大部分总统撒谎，因为新保守主义者同意撒谎符合人民的利益这个原则，但是谎言怎么可能符合人民的利益？
This has a lot to do with ethics and morality and the Constitution as well as the rotten details that we read and they do this almost with a clear conscience. I just wonder exactly where McCain was when he was over there helping us, the American citizens, to go over there, he was the expert, he travelled in and out of there and he was going to help direct the assistance. I think the odds are pretty darn great that he would have had access to this information and knew darn well exactly who he was recommending we’d get the support.
为了重塑道德和宪法，为了纠正那些我们读到的腐败的细节，需要做的有很多。他们撒谎真是心安理得啊。我确切想知道的不过是麦凯恩（2008年共和党总统候选人）过去所在的地方，以及他何时在那边帮助我们这些美国公民去那边。他是一位专家。他曾在那里出出进进打算提供指导和协助。我想他获得这些信息的可能性还是很大的，同时也清楚为了让我们获得支持他正在推荐谁。
Daniel McAdams: He even pointed out some of the unsavory people he met while he was there, but of course he blustered and blundered and said how outrageous people to question who I was there meeting.
丹尼尔·麦克亚当斯：当他（上述的麦凯恩）在那里的时候，他甚至指出他遇到过的道德品质败坏的人，不过他当然发过脾气也犯过错误，因为他说那些人质疑“我在那里遇到谁”真是令人无法容忍。
Ron Paul: I think this report is very important. I’m impressed with the fact that we got to see it and I don’t think we have a full understanding of exactly how sometimes things get out. I think you made a point it’s not complete, it’s been redacted, it got out under the Freedom of Information Act, which is are supposed to give it to us. The fact that things are supposed to be released under the Freedom of Information Act, that doesn’t mean anything. They don’t want to have it.
荣·保罗：我想这份报告非常重要。报告中提到的事实我们真应该去看看，它们令人印象深刻。我认为有时候我们没有完全理解事情是如何暴露出来的。我认为你一定要认清楚它还不充分、它经过修订、它能暴露出来是因为《信息自由法》。《信息自由法》说应该将它给我们看。按照《信息自由法》发布的事情没有价值。他们不想拥有它（所以将它暴露出来）。
Anyway, I think we are fortunate, they’ve tried to put disclaimers on this, so nobody would pay attention, but hopefully people will pay attention to this, not only the politicians but ultimately the people of this country have to say this is not a good policy and yes, all these details it’s going to be hard to work out and that’s why the word that the Founders use ‘entanglements’, we should avoid. This is an entanglement and there’s too many factions and none of this is done in interest of United States national security.
不管怎么讲，我认为我们是幸运的，他们试图放弃这个，因此没人会注意，但是希望人民会注意到这个报告，不仅是政客们，最终是让这个国家的人民说这不是一个好政策。是的，要把所有细节弄出来是很难的，这就是为什么美国的国父们使用‘纠葛’这个我们应该避免的词。这就是一种纠葛，一种复杂关系，其中有太多的因素，但是没有一个因素与美国国家安全有关。
Daniel McAdams: Frankly, after you and many others were proven right in opposing the Iraq war, saying it was based on lies, I didn’t think they would try to get away with it again in such a boldfaced way. The media, once again, is lining up behind these stories, they are not questioning anything and we are in high gear toward war with Syria. As a matter of fact, on Friday the UN Security Council is debating a resolution that the U.S.’s tabled that under the guise of looking into who used chemical weapons in Syria. I believe it was a Trojan horse as a vehicle, because right now it be illegal to attack Syria, although we are doing, but a full invasion would be maybe over the top, if they can have some sort of a fig leaf to a UN Security Council resolution, which I think they will get, that I think that is the open door.
丹尼尔·麦克亚当斯：坦白地讲，当你和其他许多人的反伊拉克战争被证明是对的以后，因为你们说打那场战争完全是基于谎言，我认为他们不应该如此厚颜无耻地试图逍遥法外一走了之。再说一遍，那些故事的背后都有媒体在运作，他们从不质疑任何事，而我们现在正全速走向与叙利亚的战争中。事实是，周五联合国安全理事会讨论了美国提交的以查看谁在叙利亚使用化学武器为幌子的决议。我相信那就是特洛伊木马，因为虽然我们是在进攻叙利亚，但是全面侵略还是太过分，因为现在进攻叙利亚是非法的，不过如果他们拿到联合国决议那张遮羞布一切就又不同了。我认为他们会得到的，因为我认为联合国从来不拒绝美国。
Ron Paul: The big obstacle, of course, is the propaganda of government, the propaganda of the media, the propaganda of our newspapers, what is left to them, so they hear the other side. Now, what we have is the Internet, of course, but they still have tremendous influence on propagating this type of information and people, sort of, eyes glass over this.
荣·保罗：当然我们现在面对的最大的障碍就是政府的宣传、媒体的宣传、还有我们报纸的宣传。现在我们有的就只剩互联网了，但是在宣传这类信息时他们依然有着极大的影响力，而且人们有点忽略我们。
Of course, that is one of the important reasons why we have the Ron Paul Liberty Report is trying to get this information out and this is where we hope to be able to explain what is happening and that you are invited to study and reflect on and accept the notion of non-intervention, because once you concede intervention, then there’s all kinds of interventions. Big ones, little ones, all over the place and then intervention in the economy. They argue how to intervene and who gets the money. In foreign policy it’s the same way and they give and take and Democrats aren’t exactly like Republicans, Neocons influence both, military industrial complex influence both parties, but the information that you get can only come from a site like ours and actually the Ron Paul Liberty Report now has its own site. Ronpaullibertyreport.com
当然，正因为有上述原因，我们才有了荣·保罗的“自由报告”。本报告正在尝试将这条信息揭露出来，而且我们希望通过这个节目解释正在发生的事，并邀请你研究、思考、接受这些没有经过干涉的见解，因为一旦你向干涉让步，那么就会有各种各样的干涉出现。大的、小的、出现在各个地方，然后连经济也在所难免。他们认为如何干涉就如何干涉，他们认为谁得钱谁就得钱。在对外政策中他们使用相同的方法给和拿。虽然新保守主义者和军事工业联合企业同时影响民主党和共和党，不过民主党人和共和党人并不是完全一样的，因此你得到的这条信息只可能来自像我们这样的网站。其实荣·保罗的“自由报告”现在已经拥有自己的网站了：Ronpaulibertyreport.com。
Feel free to go there to keep up on this information and, of course, always continue to follow up on the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity that Daniel McAdams is the Executive Director of.
欢迎随时莅临该网站以保证你可以跟上新的信息。当然也要继续追踪荣·保罗和平繁荣学院，丹尼尔·麦克亚当斯是它的执行理事。
I think you can get the truth from there and you can spread the truth, because if you need the ammunition of the fallacy of our foreign policy and right now it’s a ridiculous foreign policy when it comes to Iraq and ISIS and Syria and it’s time for us to wake up.
我想你可以从那里获得真相，而且你也可以将真相扩散开来，因为你可能需要弹药攻击我们外交政策（尤其是现在针对伊拉克、ISIS以及叙利亚的荒谬的外交政策）中的谬误。我们该清醒了。
I want to thank everybody for tuning in today and come back soon.
我要感谢今天观看节目的各位，一会儿再见。
This video was published by the Ron Paul Institute.
本视频由荣·保罗学院发行。
评论：
（1）
Ron Martinez • 25 days ago
As a former soldier who took the oath seriously, I wish u to run for president. The reluctant president is the best president, ask George Washington..
作为一名认真宣誓过的退伍军人，我希望你参选总统。不情愿当总统的总统都是最好的总统，问问乔治·华盛顿……
（2）
knowitall • a month ago
Let this be said Israeli officials (Zionist) on Monday rejected a claim by U.S. President Barack Obama that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is intervening in American affairs with his opposition to the Iran nuclear deal.
据说以色列官员（犹太复国主义者）周一拒绝了奥巴马的一项要求。奥巴马说以色列的总理内塔尼亚胡不让美国与伊朗签核协议。
This as reaction on a CNN interview the day before on Sunday, Obama was asked if Netanyahu has “injected himself forcefully” into Washington affairs, and he replied “right.” When asked whether this was appropriate, Obama said, “I’ll let you ask Prime Minister Netanyahu that question if he gives you an interview,” and that “I don’t recall a similar example” of a foreign leader meddling in U.S. affairs.
这个是针对前天（周日）CNN采访的回应。当时奥巴马被问及是否内塔尼亚胡已经“武力干涉”华盛顿的内务，他答道：“是的。”当被问及这是否合适时，他说：“如果内塔尼亚胡总理让你采访，我建议你去问他这个问题，”并说“我记不起还有一个外国领导人会像这样干涉美国事务的例子了。”
Maybe we should ask ourselves why we see an Israeli Prime Minister talking in front of Congress.
也许我们该自问为什么我们看见一位以色列的总理在国会前讲话。
ISIS is the the name of the game to create a Greater Israel. It is all deception, same like......creating money out of nothing. Who owns the banks, who owns the Militairy complex, who owns Congress, who owns the USA. Well figure?
ISIS就是“创立一个更大的以色列”这个游戏的名字。它就是骗局，和空手套白狼一样。谁拥有银行，谁就拥有军事工业联合企业，谁就拥有国会，谁就拥有美国。完美的逻辑。
The Zionist own the banks, the militairy complex and Congress, and the Saudis own a big junk of the USA. Quess what!!! Israel ( the State of Zion) and the Saudis are allies.
犹太复国主义者拥有银行、军事工业联合企业和国会，而沙特拥有美国这个大垃圾。猜猜看！！！以色列（犹太复国主义者的国家）和沙特是盟友。
Can we stop this ongoing madness? I doubt it, do you?
我们能阻止这正在进行的疯狂吗？我怀疑不行，你的意见呢？
Liberty-Equality-Brotherhood
自由-平等-兄弟情谊
（3）
Eliza • a month ago
"What kind of game is the US playing?"
A FUCKING DANGEROUS ONE
若问“美国正在玩哪一手？”
就是最危险的那一手
（4）
Mabelle Vonk • a month ago
US policies are AIPAC's goals.
美国的政策是“美国以色列公共事务委员会”的目标。
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